Curse

Sethellington · Mar 22, 2010, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh5813

Just stop already.

To that question no they haven't killed the fun. They just rid of the builds that took advantage of the game (1). I give credit to the players that put the builds together in the first place. I think Anet saw those builds much like a "God Mode" cheat in a video game. Where players took very little if no damage. So where the fun in that if you knew you would be unstoppable even if you went into a high level areas. They got rid of them in hopes it would make players actually work together and play/farm an area together instead of alone.

Like many other people have said, Guild Wars has been online for over 4 years now and unlike WoW who adds new content constantly nothing has really change in Guild Wars. (2) There is only so many times someone can play the same thing over and over again before they get bored and stop playing.

All I really see in the chat anymore besides the mindless chatter is "Can someone run me here" "Can someone run the mission for me" or them just asking for a high lvl item. I rarely see "Looking for group to do mission." I remember when I first noticed that Nick was put in the Sulfurous Waste in Nightfall how there where many low lvl people asking to be run to that location from Kamadon and when they where told they had to complete 75% of the game just to get there, they started to throw temper tantrums because they had to play the game.

I personally think the nerfs are just Anets last ditch effort to actually make players play the game and not just rely on one player to do all the work for them, at least until Guild Wars 2 comes out.

1: That's not why we're angry. We're angry for the precise opposite reason to this.

2: I guess you're new?

Deakon · Mar 22, 2010, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

The debate here should not be over whether the fun of certain people has been affected by the nerfs (every update affects someone's fun). The debate should be over which group is more important: the group that wants to farm stuff quickly, or the group that wants balance.

There should be NO debate over which paying customers are more important than other paying customers.

I'm glad to see that at least a couple of people are HONEST about it being solely about the e-peen. Want balance? Find a friend and flip a coin all day or stand in town and play Rock, Paper Scissors. If people wanted to play a balanced team, there was nothing stopping them from doing so. Nobody buys the "balanced teams" or the "way the game was intended" crap. Blow smoke up someone else's butt.

The only thing that has changed is that the folks who have stacks and stacks of ecto/shards became much richer overnight. People who want to play a balanced team are just as frustrated now as before the skill update. See http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/n...t10430234.html for an example.

People who piss and moan keep ruining the game. At least you can sit back and keep your mouths shut while patting yourselves on the back.

byteme! · Mar 22, 2010, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Guys, guys, guys. Let's be honest here.

Some people had fun SCing. So yes, their fun was affected.

When certain options exist that make all other options completely worthless, that affects other players, because it forces them to either run the overpowered build or suck, neither of which is fun in the case of many players. So, yes, overpowered builds do affect other players, and the fun of those players. As an example, my dervish was not nearly as fun once I discovered that the class was worthless.

The debate here should not be over whether the fun of certain people has been affected by the nerfs (every update affects someone's fun). The debate should be over which group is more important: the group that wants to farm stuff quickly, or the group that wants balance.

What you're saying is without SC, balance teams will take their place (so you can get in a group). When I mean take their place I mean literally, "take their place" not just the random balance groups who would've otherwise done it balanceway anyways. That isn't happening or is it? Got any proof because I don't.

Been on this forum for a long time. This argument has come up before in many different forms. Good example is Ursan. Balance groups did not replace the Ursan abusers. Everyone just left when Ursan got the nerf bat. What you have now are guild groups, 1-3 man farmers/runners and ZBounty day. So yes you're right that "overpowered skills" limited your accessibility but when you remove them you're still stuck with limited accessibility because now no one wants to play. So you're still stuck with the same problem albeit a lot worse. I don't need to make this stuff up. The proof is in the pudding.

[edit]
Just out of curiosity I logged on and wandered around ToA (all 3 districts) to see what's going on. It is March 22, 2010 at 4:52pm pst.

There are exactly 3 FoWSC groups forming.
3 people in party search looking for UWSC
4 people in party search looking for FoWSC
0 people doing balance in any way, shape or form.
0 people LFG for balance in public chat
8 people buying/selling
countless others standing around (could be guilds/alliances in balance groups but unless they're looking for PuGs you nor I will be apart of this so it's deemed irrelevant)

If you remove the groups that are actually visibly doing anything at the moment (ala SC teams) in ToA the place is literally a ghost town.

[edit]Been about 15 minutes now district hopping in ToA. Only thing happening is 2 of the FoWSC teams had entered in FoW. Other than that there's really nothing much to talk about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

There should be NO debate over which paying customers are more important than other paying customers.

If people wanted to play a balanced team, there was nothing stopping them from doing so. Nobody buys the "balanced teams" or the "way the game was intended" crap. Blow smoke up someone else's butt.

I was thinking the same thing.

Balance is so 2005-06. We can blame the overpowered skills all we want but at the end of the day it's the people who decide how they want to play. Speed Clearing is the NEW way of doing things. Remove Shadowform, remove Obby Flesh, remove 600/Smite, and remove every bloody overpowered skill in the game. You can't remove Speed Clearing. It's not just the skills involved but also the tactics, abusing the stupid AI and the player mindset. There's NOTHING stopping people from splitting up into small groups to complete a task. There's NOTHING stopping people from skipping/running content. There's NOTHING stopping people from thinking outside-the-box. Lets face it, since the introduction of speed clearing it's become part of the PvE meta. Instead of thinking how to beat an area via balanceway the community is looking for ways to cut corners instead. Always in search of the path with least resistance.

You need not look very far for evidence. With each subsequent nerf to Shadowform people just went out to try a new method to SC. They didn't stop SC'ing and change to balance nor will they if Shadowform ever gets Smiter's Booned. They'll just find a different way to do it. It may be slower but it's still gonna be a SC (faster then balanced).

Introverted Dimensions · Mar 23, 2010, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Lost interest in the game not too long ago. Still log in every now and then so I don't get /gkicked even though it's pointless.

What really killed it for me was carrying a pug through Frostmaw's HM and then getting an error and getting kicked out while trying to load into the fifth level and having 2/7 get a silverwing recurve bow drop. Wasted a good hour and a half of my life that one day.

Regulus X · Mar 23, 2010, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Just out of curiosity I logged on and wandered around ToA (all 3 districts) to see what's going on. It is March 22, 2010 at 4:52pm pst.

There are exactly 3 FoWSC groups forming.
3 people in party search looking for UWSC
4 people in party search looking for FoWSC
0 people doing balance in any way, shape or form.
0 people LFG for balance in public chat
8 people buying/selling

countless others standing around (could be guilds/alliances in balance groups but unless they're looking for PuGs you nor I will be apart of this so it's deemed irrelevant)

If you remove the groups that are actually visibly doing anything at the moment (ala SC teams) in ToA the place is literally a ghost town.

Been about 15 minutes now district hopping in ToA. Only thing happening is 2 of the FoWSC teams had entered in FoW. Other than that there's really nothing much to talk about.

I was thinking the same thing.

Hey, isn't that what the autistic, stubborn, ignorant, unskilled, snotty, mindblinded, relentless, spiteful side of the community wailed at Anet for? They wanted ToA all to themselves so they can has heroes/henchies and try to heal-breeze/mending their way through it all, followed by drowning in their failure. They're also the ones that wished death upon PvPers with the Dishonorable Combatant System. Nowadays, Random Arenas is super empty. ToA is also now empty. Soon they'll motion for even harsher, stupider changes that'll cause enough disinterest in the very little playerbase that remains to make them want to leave.

Bryant Again · Mar 23, 2010, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Instead of thinking how to beat an area via balanceway the community is looking for ways to cut corners instead. Always in search of the path with least resistance.

This is the sad, honest truth.

For the high-end player, SC has become the standard. This is because there were so many issues left ignored near the start of the game (AI against a soloer, "tanking") that have snowballed into what we see now.

How did it end up this way? Hard to tell. Maybe ANet felt that players would rather do what's fun rather than what's most profitable. Maybe it's because they felt the issues were minor and wouldn't affect the overall endgame, which is untrue (least resistance >>> anything else).

Either way, this is the end-product. I only hope that ANet is able to plot through history of GW1 so as to completely avoid it with GW2.

Now, in regards to whether or not ANet should nerf anything more or take further action? Generally I'm pretty indifferent to it. Vocal minorities will in no way impact a game's success, and this is another brutal truth (example). I guess nerfing and fixing a lot of things "could" set a message for what to expect for GW2, and it might get a few old-time "respectable" players to give rep to ANet...

Age · Mar 23, 2010, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Yes .They did in way they didn't have to buff SF so much they way they did when it got buffed as split skill from pvp.They buff SF to much as to give way for anyone with a Sin to be able to farm as much as they wanted.This was even more stronger than the first generation of Monk 55 builds (protective bond).This one class could solo pretty much all it wanted as well as run. I won't say much about Ursan as I wouldn't want to monk Ursan party.It was nice to use once in awhile though.

oscarmk · Mar 23, 2010, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

Hey, isn't that what the autistic, stubborn, ignorant, unskilled, snotty, mindblinded, relentless, spiteful side of the community wailed at Anet for? They wanted ToA all to themselves so they can has heroes/henchies and try to heal-breeze/mending their way through it all, followed by drowning in their failure. They're also the ones that wished death upon PvPers with the Dishonorable Combatant System. Nowadays, Random Arenas is super empty. ToA is also now empty. Soon they'll motion for even harsher, stupider changes that'll cause enough disinterest in the very little playerbase that remains to make them want to leave.

Balanced teams are usually only guild teams. And Random Arenas has never been empty ever at any give time you will join a match without a restart 95% of the time.

Tramp · Mar 23, 2010, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

How did it end up this way? Hard to tell. Maybe ANet felt that players would rather do what's fun rather than what's most profitable. Maybe it's because they felt the issues were minor and wouldn't affect the overall endgame, which is untrue (least resistance >>> anything else).

I think it ended up this way because the people at Anet do not acutally play the game. How many times have you heard a newbie say, "I just want to earn enough gold to get my xxxxx armor, or buy xxxxx weapon." That is what the game is about: 100% epeen or vanity. To get that epeen it should be fun, and fun is not wasting your real life time. So in Anet's stupid quest for more balance, they are increasing real life time needed, which means less fun. Fortunately for most players who have sins, the idiots swung the nerf bat at SF and hit us monks instead and killed 600. So the result is nothing changed except the monk class became no fun so people quit, sins kept speedclearing with their new ele OF bretheren, and balance groups still cant figure out why they are left unloved in outposts since everything got "nerfed".

My observations as I stand in DOA and waste the last of my gold buying up gems to finish off some braces: I get 3 or 4 requests to join a pug and heal. I cancel, they request several times. Finally they pm. I tell them unless Anet reverses the nerfs to my monk, I will never heal for another group again so good luck and bye. After 15 minutes or so, I keep an eye on the request and I see their numbers drop from 6 to 5 to 4 to 3 to .... {poof} another pug disbanded. In the meantime, a lot of people come and go from DOA in speedclearing guilds using SF as the key players. Balance way is forever dead. Like Byteme states above, speedclear is the new meta and it doesnt matter what the skills are, balanceway is toast. GG Anet, you accomplished nothing with the skill changes except changed a few classes from fun, to not at all fun.

Anet should admit they really dont know what the hell they are doing and let everyone just play the way they want and have fun until GW2. To let everyone have fun, my idea is roll back the idiotic nerfs all the way back to ursan. Balanced teams are NEVER coming back, at least then any class could participate in a speedclear if they wanted and have the choice of picking which type of speedclear they want: ursan, vor mesmer, SF sin, 600 monk, etc, etc, etc. If they want to waste their time on balanceway, nothing is stopping them. It's is not like they are getting into groups now either, so nothing will change except more opportunity for everyone.

dr love · Mar 23, 2010, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tramp

i think it ended up this way because the people at anet do not acutally play the game.

The Sword of 1000 Truths!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But why would they play for months on end to get stacks of ectos, a tiger emote, a gold trim, nice gear... when they created all of those?

They can never fully understand why many people play, and what they go through.

Regulus X · Mar 26, 2010, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscarmk

Balanced teams are usually only guild teams. And Random Arenas has never been empty ever at any give time you will join a match without a restart 95% of the time.

When compared to a bit before Anet stopped caring ...

... yea, it's pretty empty. Maybe not 'literally' empty, but ... it's empty.

Skyy High · Mar 26, 2010, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

When compared to a bit before Anet stopped caring ...

... yea, it's pretty empty. Maybe not 'literally' empty, but ... it's empty.

If the population has decreased because of Dishonor, then it basically did the job of getting rid of all the glad farmers who would /ragequit if they got on a team without a monk, didn't it?

byteme! · Mar 26, 2010, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

If the population has decreased because of Dishonor, then it basically did the job of getting rid of all the glad farmers who would /ragequit if they got on a team without a monk, didn't it?

The problem with that is people are like sheep. They see something that is declining/dead and they stop playing because everyone else has stopped. Funny thing is they don't even realize it and often citing boredom/difficulty as the main factor. But where did this boredom/difficulty contrive from?

Quote:

A study led by University of Leeds researcher Jens Krause and published in the Animal Behaviour Journal suggests that people unconsciously flock like sheep. A group as small as 5 percent can influence the direction of the entire group.

The researchers put groups of up to 200 people in a hall and told them to move around and not to communicate. A few individuals were told where to walk and every time the crowd eventually followed. Most were unaware that they were being led.

So ya even if all the bad players, rage quitters, and cheaters left may "seem" good it really isn't. You want a healthy size population to play your game regardless of what you think of them. These people along with all your regular goodie-two-shoes type players help contribute to a successful game.

Good example is WoW. Large population. People see this and they think to themselves, "WoW must be a good game because lots of people play it". I mean with millions upon millions of players playing daily they can't all be wrong right?

I personally would have left GW on my own if it didn't turn out to be as successful as it has. If GW did not have the population that it did at the start I would not glance an eye ball at the game no matter how well it was made. Especially given the fact it's a multiplayer online game. Regardless of all the flaws and broken mechanics etc... the mere fact a ton of people play even to this day leaves me to conclude to myself that the game was done right. As the old saying goes...

"You can please some people some of the time"
"You can please all people some of the time"
"You can please some people all of the time"
"But you can't please all people all the time"

After playing this game since day 1 I can honestly conclude at this late stage in GW that anything that contributes to a population decline in any way shape or form is BAD. We've seen Anet attempt to tamper with the game many many many times over the years and it's never fixed anything. Only thing accomplished is pissing off more players. In the early stages of GW sure tampering, fixing bugs etc... was necessary. But this late in the game when these problems should have been dealt with already, tampering now is futile.